20. Practitioner's Podcast: Who Cares?
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Go to navigatorschurchministries. org. So I'm really excited for today's episode because I think, , Justin and I are going to present you with a problem that you may not even need know yet is a problem, right? This episode is actually perfect for disciples who get distracted by the demands of life, disciples who get distracted by the demands of life.
Justin, why don't you tell everybody what we mean by that? Yeah. Well, first, I'd like to start by just saying, I thought you were going to say you might not even know that you need this problem. , so that would have been awesome. Got it. , so the, the problem we're talking about today is the problem of getting distracted by everyday life so that our priorities move off of the priorities of Jesus and the priorities that God has for us, , in Jesus.
And specifically what we're talking about is a problem of reaching the lost. Of moving the gospel forward into the lives of those who don't yet know Jesus, , into the lives of those who, , you know, are somewhere in their spiritual journey, but mostly are somewhere where they have no, no awareness of, of Jesus or no interest in him.
Yeah. I think one of the things that happens to a lot of us, especially as we get into disciple making on a regular basis is we become more and more insulated with Christians in our life. And, and this is specifically a really big problem, , I can say from my own experience for church leaders, because as a church leader, what ends up happening is we surround ourselves with our congregation who we love and support, right?
As a pastor, I got my flock and then I'm doing the programs and then I'm doing the disciple making. Which of course is different than a program, but all of those things lead to a whole bunch of people that I'm surrounding myself with that are already believers. And yet when I read the scriptures, and I look at Jesus leaving the 99 to go get the one, what's really clear to me is that Jesus set his sights.
On the outcast, the unknown, the people who are on the margins of life, right? The, those who did not yet know him and, and, you know, Justin, I just really wonder what does it look like to create a hunger inside of me, inside of all of us, where we're thinking about the lost. As much as, or maybe even more than we're thinking about those who already know him.
Yeah. I think that's where we want to get to. Right. And I think one of the, one of the things I read probably 20 years ago that was really impactful for me , that described kind of a, a scenario that, , really painted clearly, I mean, painted reality really clearly of what this life is like, what it's about, how we're reacting to it.
, and I want to tell you a bit of that story where it's, it's just a bit too long, , for us to read, but it's, it's not that long. Wait, just a second. Wait, just a second. Before we go any further, Justin sent me this. , I just need everyone to hear this out loud. Justin sent me this, , article and it's a really good article.
I think you guys are really going to like it. But he said, Hey, I said short article and I got it. And I was like, Justin, this isn't a short article. This is a really well written essay. And, , and so he and I affectionately disagree on what the definition of short is. Is yeah, it wasn't to be fair. It wasn't as short as I remembered it, but it's also not super long.
So if you think it's going to be linked in the show notes, I recommend you read it. It'll take what 10 minutes, something like that, , depending on how fast you read. So, okay, here, here's what it is. The article is called who cares. And it was written by a guy named general William Booth. And if you're familiar with the salvation army, you know, normally around Christmas time, they're out in front of stores, ringing their bell to, to get donations.
, he was the one that founded, , the salvation army. Yeah. It's really interesting. If, if you ever want to look at a guy whose life really, , points back to seeking the lost, I would tell you to look at. , booth, they say that after he died, 150, 000 people filed by his casket, including Quinn Mary, they call them the prophet to the poor.
So he, his writing on this is one of those things that is considered, , really foundational to his understanding of why he did what he did. Yeah, so this article again, I'm just going to describe kind of the situation in which he writes about. He describes a vision that he had while praying and the vision is essentially this.
He sees an ocean of people floating and plunging, shouting and shrieking, coming up from the waves and then being plunged down into them. Some are shrieking, but they're all trying to figure it out, right? And the ocean is really Angry and stirred up kind of like a storm. There's clouds overhead. There's thunder and and there's a few people Who are safe on a platform or a rock?
Right that's jutting out from the ocean. Okay, so this is kind of the opening scene of the article Okay, so from there He says that he sees these people, , drowning and yet there's other people who are at safety and what really, , puzzled him was even though that all the people who are around this ocean, even the ones who are safe on the rock or the platform there, , they had all been there at one time, so some, the ones who were safe, had been in the ocean, had been drowning, now they're safe, and what really surprised him is that there were some people that were safe that seemed to not care at all.
About the people who are still in the ocean and drowning and not only do they not care They're like doing other things. They're like having business meetings. Some are like doing hobbies playing different sports or whatever I mean, they're just distracted by lots of other things while meanwhile All these people are in the ocean screaming for help Plunging down some are plunging down come up and gasping for air Others are just plunging down and don't come back up.
And yet there's all these people safe on the rock who had, who had been in that situation. Now we're saved out of it and are sitting there on the rock doing lots of different things. Many of them not even interested in what's going on or care about what's going on with the people in the ocean. Okay, so he sets up that, right?
He sees that it's a vision that he sees from there. He says, Now it's not all of them. There are some people who are up on shore and they are trying to help the people in the ocean. Some are throwing things in ropes, trying to pull. Others are putting themselves in in grave danger and jping back in and trying to help the people who are drowning and trying to get them out.
And so, this is part of it. Tony, I'm sure there's more I'm missing. What else do you remember? Well, I mean, one of the things that I love, and it's, it's, it's, I'm gonna read one paragraph from you, because kind of at the end of the vision, he comes out of the vision, and he talks to us, the Christian, and he says this, My friends in Christ, you are rescued from the waters.
You're on the rock. He is in the dark sea calling on you to come to him and help him. Will you go? Look for yourselves. The surging sea of life, crowded with perishing multitudes, rolls up to the very spot on which you stand. I come now to speak to you of the fact is as real as the Bible, as real as Christ who hung upon the cross, as real as the Judgment Day will be.
And is real as the heaven and hell that will surely follow it. I mean, I just love that language and I, I love the conviction that he paints in this picture that there are some of us who understand the depth of this black sea, what he calls real life. And, and now you and I, we have the chance to respond and we're faced with the question, will we respond?
And I think that that's a question we all should really wrestle with. Yeah. Yeah. That's for sure. , the question we need to be wrestling with. And one of the things prior to that he points out is that the one who saved us is still saving people. , another. Paragraph. It's , , it starts like this. So these people used to meet and get up as high on the rock as they could and looking toward the mainland where they thought the Great Being or God was.
They would cry out, come to us, come help us. And all the while, he was down among the poor and struggling, the drowning, who were in the angry deep water and with his arms around them trying to drag them out and looking up so longingly towards us. But all in vain to those on the rock, crying to them with his voice, all hoarse from calling, come to me, come and help me.
So the picture there is Jesus down there, calling up for people to come help. And those people are calling to Jesus to come and help. But they've already, they're already safe from all that. And what they're asking for help for is like, just help with things that, , are of much less significance. Right. So Tony, what you just said, right, was this idea that we need to get to that place where we are ready, right?
We're ready to help. We're ready to move forward. That's where we want to be. But the struggle, and I think you identified it, , with some of your opening comments, is we get distracted, right? If you're in the church, whether you are a staff person or whether you are somebody who is just a congregant in the church, It's easy to get busy with all the things of life, not only, , everyday life, but also church life, right?
There's people who, well, we got small group, we got this thing, we got this other thing. And before we know it, What happens is we're surrounded by people who only know Jesus, no non christians. Or we, our relationships with non christians are at a depth that, , we're not effectively able to communicate the gospel without causing some, some strain in the relationship.
We haven't, , deepened it to the place where we can share. Yeah. And I, I think what some of us forget, right, is there's a cost for everything we do. There's a cost for being in the church and there's a cost for serving outside of the church. So, so here's a great example. I serve on a nber of community boards here in Centerville.
I love Centerville. I feel called to reach the lost in Centerville. It's part of my identity. , and, and there's a cost to that. So if, if I want to serve the lost, I have to be where there are. non christians, right? And, , that's part of what I have to do in order to reach those folks. So for me, the cost of evangelism, the cost of living out that part of my identity in Christ, because evangelism isn't a ministry of the church, it's an identity of the Christian, , right?
Like that part of who we are, it costs me time. And so I can't build relational trust. I can't love my neighbor. Well, if I'm not willing to give them time, right. One of the things that we talk a lot about a lot, we talk a lot about, excuse me, and our church is this idea about, yeah, about praying for those who don't yet know Christ, loving them well, and then building relational trust, you know, and kind of this process of what it means to share the gospel in an intentional way, but you know, we.
We're intentional about the ways that we serve the church, you know, if you've been in the church for any length of time, you've probably served any nber of boards, but are we intentional about the way that we serve those who don't yet know Christ as Booth would say, are we intentional about the ways that we go back into the dark sea?
Yeah. And, you know, if I'm going to be real honest, I think this is, . It's it's hard, right? I mean, we're not just here talking about how it's hard like we live it, right? It's hard for us It's hard in our life because of all that we have right and our lives aren't particularly unique I mean, we have a full life as well as those of you who are listening it takes some intentionality to be around the lost and Especially so those of you who are introverts listening, like, when you're tired, when you already have a full life, the thought of, well, let me go get some more time with some more people, or let me go cultivate relationships with people who are less like me, , or who I don't know as well, , that sounds like One of the sounds like one of the last things we want to do But yet it's it's what we have to stretch ourselves into you know I was challenged a few years ago Somebody asked me said Justin if if there were only people like you in the world Would the world be reached for Jesus, right?
So if people lived like me And are, is my lifestyle, bringing people to faith and shepherding them and helping them grow to become disciple makers, is that happening to the degree that if it was multiplied out millions or billions of times, would the world be reached? I mean, that's a, that's a tough question for anyone, right?
And so if I'm going to be real honest about where I'm at with this right now, where I'm at is my heart is there. , what I am seeing in terms of rate of people coming to know Jesus in my personal relationships, , it's not at the rate I want to see it. Now, am I sharing? Yes. Am I in relationships with non Christians?
Yes. But if there's movement in some of those relationships, It's really hard for me to perceive it looks like there's not now I know and believe by faith that God is at work and that he can do anything there might be fast movement At any point in time and i'm continuing to pray But one of the things that I am trying to do is position myself in more pools of non christians so that I have more of those relationships and can be sharing more and hopefully that You know like the parable of the sower the more seed that's sown out The more results there are right and so you have the four different soils as One of the observations I have there is he's he's sowing seed He has no concern about running out of seeds, right?
We don't see any any inkling of that He's just throwing it all over and one of the observations I have in my life is I need to be out sowing more seed Not that i'm not sowing any But I need to sow more, and this, , article and some passages, , in the scriptures, Matthew 9 being one of them, really challenges me to increase my heart for those who are, who are dying in the ocean, those who are drowning.
It increases it in a way that moves me beyond my, , you know, my preferences, right? For what I want to do or my time. And I think that's one of the things that, you know, many of us should look at. Yeah. I, I think for me, right, , this is a, it's a slow kind of intentional process so that there's a gentleman who I'm walking with currently who I've known for a couple of years through sports, which is the nber one way that I.
Hang out and interact with non christians and he and I are just now getting to the place where we're doing what we call God talk like we're actually talking about what it means to follow Jesus. We're talking about what the Trinity means We're getting into some of those theological foundations. I have now Presented the gospel to him Now, full disclosure, he hasn't chosen to accept it yet, right?
He's still figuring it out and that's okay. I'm not leaving him. I'm going to continue to walk with him and be around him. , and his engagement or desire to be engagement is. Kind of wanes and waxes as, as other things in his life happens. But just like in disciple making, there is offense and defense.
The same is true in these non Christian relationships is that sometimes we need to be prepared and, you know, and go and engage. And sometimes we just need to be around when somebody is ready to receive. So, you know, I think for all of us, we've got to develop those relationships. And then, , really spend time nurturing them.
And much like you, Justin, I don't think that I'm doing a great job at the rate of which I'm sowing that seed. But, , every day I'm convicted more and more that, , I want to help people see the fullness of life with Christ. Yeah, that's really good. And I think with the rate, I don't want anyone to hear this and think, Oh, I gotta produce, right?
It's up to me to produce a certain amount, right? The scriptures are clear that the Spirit is one, the Spirit is the one that does the work. But what it does to me is, is when I look at the rate, right, and it doesn't get up to what I want it to be, it moves my heart in the direction of pleading out to God and saying, God, help me.
I can't do this. I can't do this without you. You're the one that moves people's hearts. Lord, create a hunger there. Move them towards you. And it moves me to be in prayer. It moves me to grow in my urgency and the priority at which I put on praying for my non Christian friends, meeting new non Christians, all those things.
And so as you're listening, , something I would suggest to you is to put a mirror up to your own life. And look at, what do your relationships with non Christians look like? You know, is there progress? Is there prayer before progress? Are you sharing your life with them before you're trying to share the gospel with them?
Right? How is that looking? And sometimes you share the gospel before your life, but generally in this culture, sharing your life first opens doors for the gospel. , another question that Tony and I like to ask is, you know, when's the last time a non Christian invited you to do something socially? Right, so that's one we can't manipulate, right?
So I can say, well, I've done something, but if there's a real friendship and connection, then our non christian friends are going to be inviting us to do things as well. So I'd really encourage you, and I know we're near in time to wrap up, but click on this article at the bottom of the show notes here.
And read it and interact with God over it. Pray over it. Ask God to speak to you about, you know, what, what do you need to hear from him around, , evangelism in your life and sharing with non Christians friends. We're so thankful for the time today to dive into this important topic. And we pray that it's convicting to you as it is to us and spurs us on to love one another in good deeds.
So, , take away. Don't lose sight of the people that Jesus had his sights set on. Don't lose sight of the people that Jesus had his sights sets on action. Step identify some of your non Christian friends and begin to pray for which relationship can go deeper and read the article. I promise you won't regret it as always.
We're so thankful. That you continue to walk with us as we try to put out these tool based episodes and these thought episodes on what it means to make disciples who can make disciples. Do us a favor. Hit that subscribe button where every list of podcasts leave a rating, a review on iTunes and the highest compliment you can give us.
Share this episode with a friend, maybe somebody who can hold you accountable to non Christian relationships. We'll see you guys real soon.