6. Practitioner's Podcast: The Difference Between a Christian and a Disciple
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Practitioner's podcast where we're applying Jesus style, disciple making to everyday life. This episode in all of our episodes are powered by Navigators, church Ministries, which works on helping churches make disciples who can make disciples. For more information or to get connected, go to navigators church ministries.org.
Man, I'm excited for today's episode, Justin. Today's episode is perfect for anyone. Who is or ever has been confused about the difference between a Christian and a disciple, and I, I think this is important discussion because far too often in the church we have been using the terms simultaneously, but I think you and I are gonna suggest today that maybe we should think through that.
Yeah, I think we definitely need to think through it because sometimes we think things are clear and they aren't, and other times we know things aren't clear and then we need to get 'em clarified. Right? So one of the things that I think about when I think of an example of something like that is squares and rectangles.
Now this is kid stuff, Tony squares and rectangles, right? My son's in kindergarten, he's learning about shapes. He's telling me all the time about squares and rectangles. Well, I have been taught that they are different, right? That a square's a square, rectangles a rectangle. But did you know that they're not exactly that different?
They are. Yes, yes, I did know this. I know what to say. You're ahead. Me. I am. I am. A little bit ahead of you, but go ahead and finish. I got excited about squares and rectangles, . So every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square, which I have to go on record and say, nobody ever told me that in elementary.
I think I learned that in algebra or geometry would've been geometry, I think. Okay. Yeah. High school geometry, high school geometry is probably when I realized that every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Yeah. So I feel like we need to unpack it just a little bit so we don't leave people hanging.
Okay. So yeah, A square is a quadrilateral where all four angles are right angles and all four sides are the same. A rectangle is a quadrilateral where all four angles are right angle. But the sides are not the same length. So there we go. A little bonus for our listeners today is not only discipling today, and, and, and, you know, let's be honest here, right?
Like, this is not a mathematician's podcast , but this matters. This really matters because there's an old cliche pre , preaching quote that says, if there's a mist in the pulpit, there's a fog in the peel. Right. If there's a mist in the pulpit, there's a fog in the pew. And far too often in the churches where I've been in, and I, I know that you've been in, and pastors that we've worked with, there's a lot of people who've been going to church for a really long time that don't know the difference between a Christian and a disciple.
And for a long time, , there are a lot of Christians who would say that they're disciple makers. And yet, because we've never taken the time to really define the two. We've left them really lacking. Right. And, and it's, it's unfair to the, the pastor who's trying to preach the message, it's unfair to the church who's trying to live out the gospel.
And it's certainly unfair to the person who wants to be a disciple maker and doesn't know exactly what that means or looks like. Yeah, that's exactly right. So in this episode, we're gonna help. Unpack the difference between the term Christian and the term disciple. Both what it originally meant, where it came from, but also today and how it's used in today's world.
And then to help us kind of project forward, well, if we're gonna use these words, let's use them wisely and accurately. So that we're helping to clarify, right? Any fog that's out there related to disciple, disciple making, disciple making terms. We want all this stuff to be super clear, not only for you, the listener, but also for those that you're influencing.
Yeah. And the best way to start is to talk about the history of some of those words, and like a lot of the words, a lot of the words that are born out of early Christianity, they're usually born out of a derogatory. You know, when we, when we think about Jesus', Lord, that was a super political statement.
Well, the term Christian literally means little Christ. And it was originally designed to be a derogatory term, right? We see it used about three times in scripture, and the first time that that I could find was Acts 1126, right? And so this term, little Christ was kind of designed to be a, a putdown right after.
They're following someone who didn't overtake the, the empire like they had promised. Right? If you're a good Jew, that was always the belief that the Messiah would come and reclaim the empire the way, , they always believed he would. Instead, Jesus Christ died. He died for our sins, and he did so in a way that no one ever expected.
So the term little Christ when given by the Romans or the Jewish teachers of the day was designed to. Derogatory in nature. And so that's kind of the history of Christian. It's not a term that we see Jesus ever use. It's not a term that we see, , in the scriptures much, you know, in the gospels at all really.
And, and kind of the first example being in Acts 11. . Yeah, that's really helpful. So Christian started there, right? Only three times in scripture was it? Used disciples, a little bit different. Disciple goes back well before Jesus, well before his time on Earth, right? Not before his time in being created, obviously.
, right. But it is used 281 times in the scripture. So it is the predominant term for followers of Jesus in the time that Jesus was physically, , on the earth, right incarnate. Now, the word has a long history, so it was first written down about 500 years before Jesus was here. So it was written down by HEROs the Greek historian, , again, about 500 years before.
Now, if you've heard anything about the history of the word, especially in church, , you've probably heard that it means learner. And that's the metes word that is in Greek. That's the Greek word for disciple. It means learner, but that doesn't help us get to what it actually meant in the culture. And this is super important because I think that when you think about Jesus and God, the Father sending Jesus to earth, he selected a specific time and a specific place, and he could have chosen any time in human history, past or future to us.
And he chose that time and he chose the time and place where disciples and discipleship was the norm. It was a normal thing in their culture and it was kind of a, a way of teaching immersively and holistically. And so it wasn't just a master apprentice sort of situation that focuses. Passing on a skill.
It wasn't just teacher student, which passes on knowledge and understanding. It was all of that plus. Even more so, it was immersive, holistic. Again, the history of it goes 500 years before Jesus used 281 times in scripture. The predominant word that it was used in scripture by Jesus and his followers to describe who they were and what they were doing.
So that's kind of history. Tony, where, where should we go from? Well, I think if we're gonna look at the history first, then we have to look at the present context of the word and how it's most often viewed. Obviously this is a little subjective because anyone can look at these words with any different kind of definition.
So I'll take Christian, Justin, you take disciple again. Yep. And if we're gonna think about Christian, I, I went ahead, , and did a quick Google search and there are two really quick definitions for the word Christian. The first one is an adjective. Relating to or professing Christianity or its teachings.
Right now it's, those are interesting choices by the Google relating to or professing. The second one is a noun. A noun is a person who has received Christian baptism or who is a believer in Christianity, a person who's received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity. Now, here's the problem.
Christians, as a term used in today's world, comes with so much baggage. The Christians who did that, right? You can think back to the Holy Wars. It's the Christians who did that. Right? The Christians. The Christians. The Christians. And so it kind of comes with this belief more than a behavior. It, it's this idea that like, yeah, no, I'm, I'm a Christian and you know, I also do whatever I.
The terms feel almost like they're paradox in nature because we've taken the the action or the belief or like the accountability out of the idea of what it means to be a Christian. So you will believe in Christ. Boom, you're a Christian. Even though if we go back in history, you're not acting like a little Christ at all.
And I think that's one of the big problems is that the term Christian has become such a broad stroke for anyone who's been baptized, for anyone who's ever stepped foot in a church, or anyone who is raised by anyone who's stepped foot in a church, that it kind of just applies to anything. And you know, I've long believed that if it applies to everything, it probably applies to.
Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of the most popular term, right, for that people use in our time for those who believe in Jesus. And I think because of that, it, it does kind of have a wide swath or, you know, people color it in different ways. Like you said, Tony, , now disciple today. It's, it's almost like these two words have switched, right?
So in Jesus' Day, disciple was the most common, most popular. , and now Christian is the most common, most popular, and disciple is a word that is getting used more and more lately, over the past probably 15, 20 years. , but it's a word that a lot of people still don't understand, even. Those outside the church use it occasionally, right?
So they might say, well, so and so is a disciple of somebody who, you know, especially in music or the arts, , that word is used a lot more. But inside the church, the most common, , way to define a disciple is a learner. I kind of mentioned that already, but the other part, the common view of that is they're the spiritual superstars of the church.
It's not like the everyday person who is just following Jesus and, and trying to to know him. Right. When we go back to that definition we've talked about out of Matthew four 19, that a disciple is someone. Who follows Jesus as being changed by Jesus and committed to the mission of Jesus? Well, in most churches, when you think of a disciple, you're not thinking that most people are thinking of the spiritual elites in that, , in that church or that culture now learner again, it's not sufficient.
It's not sufficient because it doesn't tell us what type of learning and disciple should be talking about somebody who fits that definition following. Being changed by Jesus. Commit to the mission of Jesus in an immersive and holistic. And today, , I've heard the word disciple used, , in to mean a student to mean somebody who's taken a class to mean someone who is in a mentee mentor relationship.
The last time, Tony, we did one of these. What's the difference conversation? Yeah, it was that right? Just few episodes ago. , and so, The way that I think we can think about that is to move us back to this idea of squares and rectangles. Mm-hmm. , right? So every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square.
And what I wanna suggest is that every disciple of Jesus is a Christian. But not every Christian is a disciple. Tony, what do you think of that idea? I think it's an important distinction, and I think that the more that we can, , remind ourselves that every disciple is a Christian, but not every Christian is a disciple, I think the more we can get concrete evidence of moving someone forward to becoming a disciple, because the, the reality is, is Christianity becoming professing belief in Jesus Christ.
Is not designed to be the peak of our journey with Jesus, but really it's designed to be the jumping off point. Yeah. And everything we do from the jumping off point to eternity is the process ideally of making disciples right? Like that's the disciple journey. Now, I would also say this and. . You know, you and I love to define terms on this podcast.
We talk about that often, discipleship and disciple making and all the terms that we use in the church. They've kind of muddied up the waters around this idea about a, a disciple. And I even like to say that the goal of a mature disciple is to be a disciple maker, right? And so we should all be moving to that idea of spiritual reproduction, and obviously that's what this whole podcast is about.
You know, the, the, the idea that, Hey, you're a Christian, congratulations. You're now at the base of a mountain that when you climb it, the view will be so beautiful that you'll never want to go back down. Mm. And, and we love the fact that you're at the base. We want you at the base. We need you at the base, but don't stay there.
Right. Don't, don't cut yourself short. Right. And one of the things that I always say, You know, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move. And so that's the idea that, hey, I know Jesus and now I have to move because Jesus is actively moving. Jesus. You mentioned Matthew four 19. Jesus called his disciples to follow them, to drop their nets, to drop their previous identity, pick up their new identity in Christ, and the way to prove that is through action.
Yeah, that's so important, right? Because in Jesus' time, , the Hebrew concept of disciple was Tal Mead. It was, that was their word for disciples. Tal Mead. And the Tal Mead would have this saying, and not just in Jesus's, , sect of Judaism, but this extended beyond Judaism even. But the, the concept was follow the rabbi so closely that the dust from his sandals would cover you.
Yeah. Right. And so it's that image, but it's just like what you're saying that, , we cannot believe or think that we are in a right relationship with Jesus if we've just ascended to some belief mentally and then just stood still not followed. Right. Because following means that we're moving. It's like you said, that you can't follow somebody that's moving if you're standing still.
This idea of being at the base of a mountain. Well, this belief that has ushered you into this relationship with Jesus isn't the finish line. It's the starting line in a lot of ways, or one step over the starting line, and so, This idea that Christians are disciples or that Christians don't need to become disciples is not accurate.
It's not what Jesus taught. It's not what he modeled. It's not what scripture teaches. And so this is why it's so important, right, Tony, that we're having this discussion because, Christian and disciple, , in today's world. Now, if we go back to the roots, they're kind of the same, right? If a, if a Christian is actually a little Christ and they look like Jesus and talk like Jesus and act like Jesus, well they're a disciple too.
And there's really no difference in that sense. But that's not the way these words are, are used today. It's not their current life, , for those words today. And I think that's why we're taking the time today to kind of distinguish between the. Yeah. And, and if you've ever done any theological discussion around this, one of the, one of the sticky points about this idea is belief and action.
And, you know, you and I were talking about this before we even press record, is we're kind of flushing out. The episode is, there's a lot of tension around. The idea is, can you fully believe without action? Right? Yeah. And if there's no action, do you believe at all? Right? Right. And so, You know, one of the things that we know in scripture that Jesus preached and that John preached, you know, John the Baptist, and you know, they Peter preached in acts is repent and believe and repent in that language was a physical turn away from sin.
And believe that God's grace will cover you. Believe in what God has promised for you. So you can see in the teaching there in Jesus's first teaching, John the Baptist teaching Peter's teaching, it's all based on the same construct. You have to physically stop one thing and believe in something else. And I think that that's probably a really good marriage as we begin to think about what it means to be a disciple.
And so it's not about, you know, this is not a space where you want to get lost in the detail. Theologically on this, but there is clearly a connection that you have to, , you have to act as a part of your belief. Yep, absolutely. Yeah. One of the. One of the people that's helped me a lot with this and thinking about it through a discipleship lens is Bill Hall, h u l l will link, , in the show notes.
But one of his sayings that I've repeated, , maybe even on this podcast is, the gospel you preach determines the type of disciple you'll make. Mm, yeah. And. He's done some fantastic work. We're not gonna have time to unpack that in this podcast, but like you said, Tony, what's real important is that there's a linking in scripture between belief in action and if we ever get to the place either in our own life or communicating with those that we're teaching and discipling, that one of those is not needed, , that's not a place that scripture supports, right?
That belief in scripture are married together. In, in the teachings, so of both Jesus and Paul and Peter, and they both have their role, but if we think we can act and not believe, or if we think we can believe and not act, and have Jesus to be thrilled with us, , we're off on that. So, yeah, go ahead Tony.
Well, I, I'm gonna wrap us up here. We're almost at our time, but I, I do wanna say one thing just for my own heart as I was, you know, as you and I have been processing this episode, One of the things that I prayed for in the church when I fully began to understand what a disciple maker was, is I began to pray that the people in my pews would, , stop simply being Christians and move to being disciples.
Hmm. And that movement can change a community. That movement can change a church. , that movement, if you're listening to this and you go to the local church, that movement. Well, we'll change the ownership of a church body. And so I wanna challenge you to do that. I want to challenge you too, to move from simply being a Christian to being a disciple.
And so the, the takeaway today, every disciple is a Christian, but not every Christian is a disciple. Every disciple is a Christian, but not every Christian is a discipl. And the action step, consider your language because it will impact your culture. So spend some time defining, spend some time defining what words are you using.
Are you using Christian and disciple, , simultaneously? You know, are you using them, , to mean the same thing? Be intentional about your language cuz it'll impact your. Super thankful to be with all you guys. Thankful for our time together today. If this episode's been helpful to you, do me a favor. Hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts.
Also, leave a rating or review on that same, , platform. Wherever you listen and hey, the highest compliment you can give us. Share this episode with a friend. Maybe somebody who you wanna disciple. We know one thing for sure. If you take that step of faith, it'll change everything. We'll see you guys real soon.